Comments on The Martial Explorer, Jesse Crouch: Are Hindu (body weight) Squats safe?

It seems to be common sense to me that if you want...

2011-12-21T08:14:00.644-06:00

It seems to be common sense to me that if you want to train as a fighter, you need to prepare your muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints as a whole for exactly the type of stresses they will encounter in a fight. If you're a competitive fighter, this will involve performing a double-leg, at some point. And squats are good for shots.

Hindu squats train explosive force from a deep stance, off the toes. This type of movement is good training in my view, as it's exactly replicating the kind of demand you'll be placing on your body when trying to lift or severely imbalance an opponent after shooting in on them. You will be driving forward on your toes. You will be in a deep stance, past 90 degrees on at least one leg. You will be trying to apply ballistic, explosive force. Therefore you will need this kind of training to prepare yourself for the move you're trying to do on a resisting foe.

One presumes that this is why wrestlers throughout history have employed the "hindu" squat as part of their conditioning regimen.

The potential for injury is ever-present in virtually every valuable training technique that constitutes real martial practice. Do wrestlers wait until they have perfect skeletal alignment before trying to lift their opponent's weight, in order to avoid back strain? No. Because you're not going to get an ideal situation when facing a real human opponent. Thus, your training should reflect the ever changing, asymmetric demand on your joints and muscles which constitutes a real fight.

In short, as far as one can tell by looking at published research, as previous posters have said, the "don't go over 90 degrees" advice is dubious, the "knees shouldn't go over the toes" advice is dubious (one study at least shows that it may in fact be a positive tradeoff: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14636100), and the "don't do ballistic movements" advice is simply counter productive for fighters. You need full range of motion, you need ballistic, rapid strength through that range, and you need uneven, asymmetric muscular and skeletal alignment in your training, 'cos you'll need it in your fightin'.

If you're doing exercises just for general fitness, don't do hindu squats. But if you're a fighter, you should be doing much more risky things on a daily basis, if you're serious about your craft.

No one has mentioned the wear on the patelar carti...

2011-06-04T19:01:46.707-05:00

No one has mentioned the wear on the patelar cartilage as a result of the fast or semi-ballistic nature of this exercise. Drawing from personal experience (R knee arthroscopy, shredded patellar cartilage)with similar exercises during years of Gojy Ryu and Judo (squat kicks and bunny hops), this is bound to be just as damaging. I believe this squat can be done safely when performed "super slow" that is, at least 6 seconds down, 6 seconds up.

Just came across this, and thought I'd put a f...

2011-03-25T19:56:50.247-05:00

Just came across this, and thought I'd put a few things down on the subject;
To have to elevate the heel to perform a full ROM squat demonstrates a significant level of increased tension in the calf musculature. The correlative knock on reaction in the kinetic chain until properly assessed cannot be determined as far as the cause (it may come from above, or begin at the ankle), but more than likely knock knees, internally rotated femur, tight and immobile hip joints & lumbar hyperlordosis will be the lower body issues.
As a side note, an exercise like the sissy squat would target the same musculature without the knee pressure, and the 90º angle many try for is actually closer to 120º when measured (femur parallel to the ground), which may be out of reach for the majority of trainees.
Long story short, one of your primal movement patterns is dysfunctional & needs addressing.

That is very insightful and technical.. I'm go...

2010-03-12T18:34:15.356-06:00

That is very insightful and technical.. I'm going to have to read this book now. Thanks, Walter.

While I do agree that Hindu Squats are very danger...

2010-03-12T17:50:46.890-06:00

While I do agree that Hindu Squats are very dangerous to perform when not conditioned properly, the "knees never past 90 degrees" myth is not the culprit. The Hindu Squat form increases stress on the patellar tendon and will cause a flurry of overuse injuries.

The above 90 degree squat is actually what causes the majority of knee injuries when relating to squats. In partial squats, your hamstrings don't get a full stretch so most of the force is directed upward and forward onto the quadriceps and the attachment to the tibia. This produces an anterior shear from the patellar tendon and without a balanced pull from the hamstrings, you end up with major knee problems.

The book Starting Strength provides an incredibly more detailed explanation of partial squats and what full squats actually are.

Interesting. I never understood that a reason for...

2010-02-19T11:23:18.182-06:00

Interesting. I never understood that a reason for lifting the heels when going all the way to the ground. Thanks manesh.

Squats with flat heel may cause prob to back. so u...

2010-02-19T05:53:44.537-06:00

Squats with flat heel may cause prob to back. so u have to lower only up to middle (half or regular)

but hindu squats raise the heel to save the back.
so u can do full squat

I received a response from Mike Diebler(shown in t...

2009-03-22T23:12:00.000-05:00

I received a response from Mike Diebler(shown in the photo here) via email stating the following:

"... there is clear research showing the increase in shear and compression force in the knees when they are past the toes"

Also saying that he "wouldn't support an exercise like this" as he is someone in the situation of "recommending safe exercises".

Mike is a certified personal trainer with the National Association of Sports Medicine and the American Council on Exercise and holds a Master's Degree in Sport and Exercise Sciences from the University of Florida. Read more about him on his site.